Curse

Essence Snow · Feb 15, 2012, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

No one is complaining about the time it takes to get Miku, and if we're looking at time taken to get a reward as the additional time it takes to get there from the previous award, then Miku and Zei Ri take roughly the same amount of time. If you don't like that definition, well, then you have to count all of Nightfall as the time it takes to get Razah, and I think that that's significantly longer than WoC.

Even better example: you have to play through all of WiK and HotN in order to get Keiran. That took a long time too, but no one cared because he's a paragon...the issue here really is a) Zei Ri is desirable so people care if they can't get him, and b) you can only get him by doing difficult content, not necessarily long content. It's not the grind that's the problem, it's the difficulty. In other words: don't bring up "grind" in this discussion. :

To me grind is exactly what it is. Maybe not the first time around or even the second, but on all my played toons....yes grind. (700 quests involved if u plan on it for every prof) not to mention having multiple copies of profs.
Until there is a hero ai update a extra sin hero has about as much use as 2 storage slots or a green with horrid mods. Players are not playing through the content multiple times for the story nor for miku, They are playing through it for the rit hero and the added rewards, namely new lock boxes. If there were some repeatable quest I'm sure ppl would only replay through it for the
rit hero. Any who I'm pretty sure slot of ppl have no intent on playing through multiple times thus lending them to assume others are whining

Slowpokeking · Feb 15, 2012, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wielder Of Magic

Anet is not going to change it, suck it up.
And they shouldn't.
Everything in this game got dumbed down because of all the crying people that could not c-space something.
Finally there is this one thing that has a bit of meaning, to show you completed some challenging content..
And you want to dumb it down?
Leave Zei Ri alone, the guy is very comfortable with HM.

There are a lot of titles you can use to show you had accomplished HM.

Crimson Court · Feb 15, 2012, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Not signed.
All games should have awesome rewards (non shitty titles) for completing the hardest challenge.
Besides, this is soloable. No reason to complain here.

But...

Have the hero unlocked for the account.

I can see how someone with over 5 main alts be frustrated killing Afflicted/AmFah over and over again.

Slowpokeking · Feb 15, 2012, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimson Court

Not signed.
All games should have awesome rewards (non shitty titles) for completing the hardest challenge.
Besides, this is soloable. No reason to complain here.

But...

Have the hero unlocked for the account.

I can see how someone with over 5 main alts be frustrated killing Afflicted/AmFah over and over again.

You already got
Double money
Double Ministerial Commendation and Imperial Guard Requisition Order
A few more rubies
1 extra Imperial Dragon's Tear

in HM. Awesome enough compare to other campaigns.

It's soloable but require at least 10-15 hours.

Šiljo · Feb 15, 2012, 06:46 PM // 18:46

So we should be satisfied with the money,so the lazy incompetent people wouldnt qq so much?

Slowpokeking · Feb 15, 2012, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Šiljo

So we should be satisfied with the money,so the lazy incompetent people wouldnt qq so much?

Again, doing 35 quests(the difficulty is a little bit above the main campaigns) to get a hero is not lazy, most of the heroes are easier to unlock than this.

I don't see you post about "we should get extra hero in HM of the main campaign!" so yeah.

Šiljo · Feb 15, 2012, 06:59 PM // 18:59

I wouldn't have a problem with that...

The point seems to be,you want the hero on all chars in one day.
In that case everytime i create a char i want to immediately have all 3 last missions in the campaigns without doing anything before....

Slowpokeking · Feb 15, 2012, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Šiljo

I wouldn't have a problem with that...

The point seems to be,you want the hero on all chars in one day.
In that case everytime i create a char i want to immediately have all 3 last missions in the campaigns without doing anything before....

NO, I want a useful hero after 35 quests rather than go over the same story with increased difficulty.

Flameseeker · Feb 15, 2012, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slowpokeking

NO, I want a useful hero after 35 quests rather than go over the same story with increased difficulty.

That doesn't mean that you should get it doing NM quests.
My view would be that after playing the 35 NM quest on a char any other char should be able to choose if they want to do the NM or HM version of the quest (this if ANET doesn't allow the HM to be readily available).

What seems to e missing is some kind of repeatable quest.
I probably wont do the missions on every single of my chars (one is enough for now) still i would like to have a shot at the minis (though if i don't get them through box i'll buy them anyway...).
Some kind of repeatable quest that would require at least 2-3 human players should interest the community (instead of the "broken arrow" solo farm of WiK). It would make at least a temporary zone with people to actually play until everyone gets bored.

Slowpokeking · Feb 15, 2012, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flameseeker

That doesn't mean that you should get it doing NM quests.

It's already more difficult and time consuming than most of the other heros, the only heroes that require you to beat a campaign or something like it are Gwen's husband and Razah.

Flameseeker · Feb 15, 2012, 08:34 PM // 20:34

So let it be the "leet hero" demonstrating the perseverance of doing crazy hard missions since there's no actual need for a 3rd Rt hero (and I would guess that anyone that felt the need for a 3rd Rt already bought mercenaries to play around).

Just to be clear i don't have mercenary heroes nor have I completed the HM quests. I'm completely stuck on the retardly hard "tracking the corruption" and can't seem to stop agroing the whole map before clearing the 2nd group.

Let Zei Ri be an HM reward but just make a few tweeks on some of the quests.

Until now i only had problems with:
1)Rescue (some mobs combinations are tricky to manage with heroes)
2)Tracking (small map and many enemies and every group has a healer+lots of aoe dmg)
3)Angchou (joined a party to see how the quest went and didn't even last 5min before getting overwhelmed)
Any of the other so far is just careful pull and even my unruned and still with starter weapons heroes can handle just fine.

Kunder · Feb 15, 2012, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

Nice analogy, only that it's completely wrong. You don't need the rit hero to play the game, it's a reward for the people that want it and want to do the effort to get it.

You don't need max armor to play the game either. I've proven that by finishing all HM missions armorless. Again, trying to make a point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

The analogy is flawed because no one is whining at the moment that getting max armor is too difficult.

No shit noone is whining that getting max armor is too difficult. Do you understand what an analogy is supposed to be?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flameseeker

So let it be the "leet hero" demonstrating the perseverance of doing crazy hard missions since there's no actual need for a 3rd Rt hero (and I would guess that anyone that felt the need for a 3rd Rt already bought mercenaries to play around).

Are you joking? Rit heroes are amazing. If you are running a physical a 3rd rit is the most important hero to have a 3rd of. Rit heroes can peak at over 150 DPS with a single skill on their bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

No one is complaining about the time it takes to get Miku, and if we're looking at time taken to get a reward as the additional time it takes to get there from the previous award, then Miku and Zei Ri take roughly the same amount of time. If you don't like that definition, well, then you have to count all of Nightfall as the time it takes to get Razah, and I think that that's significantly longer than WoC.

Even better example: you have to play through all of WiK and HotN in order to get Keiran. That took a long time too, but no one cared because he's a paragon...the issue here really is a) Zei Ri is desirable so people care if they can't get him, and b) you can only get him by doing difficult content, not necessarily long content. It's not the grind that's the problem, it's the difficulty. In other words: don't bring up "grind" in this discussion.

I'm certainly complaining about the time it takes to get Miku as well as Keiran, though only as a matter of principle because Paragons and Assassins are useless.

WoC is certainly long content. Assuming a lvl 20 character with heroes from EotN I can breeze through nightfall in about 15-20 hours without even trying. WoC, at 20 mins per mission, will take 11 hours to get Miku and 23 hours to get Zei Ri. The difference is even greater when you add in that finishing Nightfall gives you a total of 14 heroes, access to dozens of new areas, skills, etc. Taking 24 hours to WoC gives you absolutely nothing in terms of game content other than the 2 heroes. Even just limiting ourselves to heroes gained, WoC gives you 1 new hero every 12 hours and Nightfall gives you 1 new hero every hour.

Charlie Dayman · Feb 15, 2012, 10:10 PM // 22:10

I can see where the OP is coming from with the first post. But I look at Zei Ri as a vanity-hero more than anything else. He's just there for variety if you get bored with Xandra or Razah. He's certainly a powerful addition to the hero roster, but not absolutely necessary in terms of team strength. Sure he's way more useful than Miku since he's a Rit, but so are Xandra and Razah. Having three Rits on a team would let you steamroll PVE, but is that even really necessary?

And I say all this as someone who has Merc Heroes, one of whom is a Rit. And even then, I rarely ever use more than one Rit hero. Yes, Zei Ri is useful because of his class, but he's not a Hero that's absolutely needed in order to get through the content. If folks really want a third Rit that badly, then it should be a reward that requires some effort.

Slowpokeking · Feb 15, 2012, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flameseeker

So let it be the "leet hero" demonstrating the perseverance of doing crazy hard missions since there's no actual need for a 3rd Rt hero (and I would guess that anyone that felt the need for a 3rd Rt already bought mercenaries to play around).

Just to be clear i don't have mercenary heroes nor have I completed the HM quests. I'm completely stuck on the retardly hard "tracking the corruption" and can't seem to stop agroing the whole map before clearing the 2nd group.

Let Zei Ri be an HM reward but just make a few tweeks on some of the quests.

Until now i only had problems with:
1)Rescue (some mobs combinations are tricky to manage with heroes)
2)Tracking (small map and many enemies and every group has a healer+lots of aoe dmg)
3)Angchou (joined a party to see how the quest went and didn't even last 5min before getting overwhelmed)
Any of the other so far is just careful pull and even my unruned and still with starter weapons heroes can handle just fine.

It's more useful than a sin and some people may need it since not everybody got all 4 campaigns.

cormac ap dunn · Feb 15, 2012, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slowpokeking

It's more useful than a sin and some people may need it since not everybody got all 4 campaigns.

A game shouldn't have to be dumbed down to suit the lowest common denominator. If one person in one hundred complains its too much trouble, then guess what? You are out of luck. If it seems challenging, well, thats the point of Hard Mode, If the reward is something you truly want, get into a guild group/group of friends/pug, go do the missions and stop complaining... in the time that you have whined on this thread, you could have been through Hard Mode by now.
I really wonder where this "Its too hard! make it easy for me because I am too lazy/lack skill/lack drive/lack the capacity to spend time learning something/lack the ability to read a wiki/am so offensively whiney I can't get into a group/meet friends/stay in a guild willing to help me!" attitude comes from, but I and many others find the Hard Mode challenge to have been worthy of the rewards. That said, even without the reward the content is fun and engaging, and Hard Mode seems appropriately HARD. Getting the 3rd Rit hero is a fitting reward, as it actually feels earned. Huh, maybe if you actually got through it without crying about it, you too might feel like you worked hard and earned it.... then again, you likely won't even try, its far easier to come onto a forum and decry free content with a challenge because you don't want to try.

Hard mode is optional... so is the reward for completing it... Why not ask for the Vanquisher title to be in NM because Hard Mode seems too difficult... Maybe after all the fun is finally drained from the game, the devs could implement Lazy Mode, skills bars are reduced to one slot, permenant IMS of 90 %, you get a maxed title called "logging in", all enemies just fall over because you came into the game at all... seriously where do these people come from?

Flameseeker · Feb 15, 2012, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Sure a Rt hero is more more useful than a sin or any other melee hero for that matter but it's not vital and in any way.
We already have 3 easy necros tha can steamroll with sab/discordway almost all pve content. We can have 3 mesmers and do the same thing so a 3rd Rit is good but not vital in any way.

I'm not arguing the dps/utility of Rits compared to other professions, they are powerful protectors and damage dealers (SoS, SoGM, ST) while +/- reliable on heroes (some micro might be needed sometimes).

I just wonder people are so lazy. If the content is to easy community cries for harder challenge. Give them a challenge and they want to dumb it down and just c-space everything. (repeat cycle as needed)
WoC still needs a few tweeks in some missions but if new content takes a few hours to get fully enjoyed be grateful for the little spark of new life in the old game and enjoy a break in the routine.

Kunder · Feb 15, 2012, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flameseeker

Sure a Rt hero is more more useful than a sin or any other melee hero for that matter but it's not vital and in any way.
We already have 3 easy necros tha can steamroll with sab/discordway almost all pve content. We can have 3 mesmers and do the same thing so a 3rd Rit is good but not vital in any way.

I'm not arguing the dps/utility of Rits compared to other professions, they are powerful protectors and damage dealers (SoS, SoGM, ST) while +/- reliable on heroes (some micro might be needed sometimes).

I just wonder people are so lazy. If the content is to easy community cries for harder challenge. Give them a challenge and they want to dumb it down and just c-space everything. (repeat cycle as needed)
WoC still needs a few tweeks in some missions but if new content takes a few hours to get fully enjoyed be grateful for the little spark of new life in the old game and enjoy a break in the routine.

The problem is that it isn't a challenge, its a grind. Give me HM DoA/UW, I'll kick the shit out of those place if it unlocked heroes. Doing WoC on more than 1 character is unbearably long, and out of all 70 WoC quests there is at most one that I would call "challenging" (Tracking the Corruption HM). The other 69 WoC quests could almost universally be C-spaced while I'm typing up this post just as easily.

WoC being long isn't a problem in and of itself. I really liked WoC, even the dreaded first phase. The problem is being forced to grind forever on multiple characters just to have all options available to you as a player who wants to create party builds.

cormac ap dunn · Feb 15, 2012, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

The problem is that it isn't a challenge, its a grind. Give me HM DoA/UW, I'll kick the shit out of that place if it unlocked heroes. Doing WoC on more than 1 character is unbearably long, and out of all 70 WoC quests there is at most one that I would call "challenging" (Tracking the Corruption HM).

WoC being long isn't a problem in and of itself. I really liked WoC, even the dreaded first phase. The problem is being forced to grind forever on multiple characters just to have all options available to you as a player who wants to create party builds.

Being this is likely the last bit of content before GW2 releases, most folks have already been focusing on one character for HoM purposes. Lets be honest here, how many alts do you devote the majority of your time to? 2, maybe 3? Now imagine if you got every bit of content in just normal mode? How much time would you spend playing the game then? Sometimes a bit of grind is whats needed to make the content last, a positive reward for it makes the time spent doing so more enjoyable, and provides just a bit of replay to the game. The timer is ticking down till GW2, I think we should all be grateful we have a reason to play the original for a bit longer and I hope that more content like this is added, so we have a reason to revisit the game again, even after GW2 has released

Slowpokeking · Feb 15, 2012, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

The problem is that it isn't a challenge, its a grind. Give me HM DoA/UW, I'll kick the shit out of those place if it unlocked heroes. Doing WoC on more than 1 character is unbearably long, and out of all 70 WoC quests there is at most one that I would call "challenging" (Tracking the Corruption HM). The other 69 WoC quests could almost universally be C-spaced while I'm typing up this post just as easily.

WoC being long isn't a problem in and of itself. I really liked WoC, even the dreaded first phase. The problem is being forced to grind forever on multiple characters just to have all options available to you as a player who wants to create party builds.

Yeah, those 4 men quests is annoying even in NM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

A game shouldn't have to be dumbed down to suit the lowest common denominator. If one person in one hundred complains its too much trouble, then guess what? You are out of luck. If it seems challenging, well, thats the point of Hard Mode, If the reward is something you truly want, get into a guild group/group of friends/pug, go do the missions and stop complaining... in the time that you have whined on this thread, you could have been through Hard Mode by now.
I really wonder where this "Its too hard! make it easy for me because I am too lazy/lack skill/lack drive/lack the capacity to spend time learning something/lack the ability to read a wiki/am so offensively whiney I can't get into a group/meet friends/stay in a guild willing to help me!" attitude comes from, but I and many others find the Hard Mode challenge to have been worthy of the rewards. That said, even without the reward the content is fun and engaging, and Hard Mode seems appropriately HARD. Getting the 3rd Rit hero is a fitting reward, as it actually feels earned. Huh, maybe if you actually got through it without crying about it, you too might feel like you worked hard and earned it.... then again, you likely won't even try, its far easier to come onto a forum and decry free content with a challenge because you don't want to try.

Hard mode is optional... so is the reward for completing it... Why not ask for the Vanquisher title to be in NM because Hard Mode seems too difficult... Maybe after all the fun is finally drained from the game, the devs could implement Lazy Mode, skills bars are reduced to one slot, permenant IMS of 90 %, you get a maxed title called "logging in", all enemies just fall over because you came into the game at all... seriously where do these people come from?

Actually quite a few people are saying about it.

Rewards like hero should be available in NM like all others, it's fair to get a rit hero after you beat NM WoC. I don't see a problem here. HM offer double rewards, it's fair, too. Just like it's not cool to spend 4 gems to get Razah.

Kunder · Feb 15, 2012, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

Being this is likely the last bit of content before GW2 releases, most folks have already been focusing on one character for HoM purposes. Lets be honest here, how many alts do you devote the majority of your time to? 2, maybe 3? Now imagine if you got every bit of content in just normal mode? How much time would you spend playing the game then? Sometimes a bit of grind is whats needed to make the content last, a positive reward for it makes the time spent doing so more enjoyable, and provides just a bit of replay to the game. The timer is ticking down till GW2, I think we should all be grateful we have a reason to play the original for a bit longer and I hope that more content like this is added, so we have a reason to revisit the game again, even after GW2 has released

No, grind is shit. Trying to frame it as a good thing is completely retarded.

I've played nearly all of my characters within the past month, experimenting with various builds.